Faithful Citizenship in Trump’s Second Term, with Peter Wehner, Anne Snyder, and David Goatley

Conversing with Mark Labberton

A special episode for the inauguration of Donald Trump’s second term, as the forty-seventh president of the United States. Whether you’re filled with hope and joy, or anxiety and fearfulness, how can we pursue a common citizenship that is grounded in faith and moral sensitivity, focused on justice and love, and rightfully patriotic?

Today, Mark welcomes friends Pete Wehner (columnist, The Atlantic, and Fellow, Trinity Forum), Anne Snyder (editor-in-chief, Comment magazine), and David Goatley (president, Fuller Seminary).

Together they discuss:

The inauguration of Donald Trump for his second term in office;

The meaning of patriotism in an unfolding, rambunctious democratic experiment;

Repentance, repair, and understanding;

How to keep a moral-ethical grounding in political life;

Balancing open curiosity and genuine concern;

What rejuvenates and renews us during anxious political times (exploring beauty in nature and art);

Learning disagreement in a post-civility era;

Peacemaking instead of polarization;

Developing civic antibodies and the need for regeneration and renewal;

And how to pray for Donald Trump as he enters his next term in office.

About Peter Wehner

Peter Wehner, an American essayist, is a contributing opinion writer for the New York Times, a contributing writer for The Atlantic, and senior fellow at the Trinity Forum. He writes on politics and political ideas, on faith and culture, on foreign policy, sports, and friendships.

Wehner served in three presidential administrations, including as deputy director of presidential speechwriting for President George W. Bush. Later, he served as the director of the Office of Strategic Initiatives.

Wehner, a graduate of the University of Washington, is editor or author of six books, including The Death of Politics: How to Heal Our Frayed Republic After Trump, which the New York Times called “a model of conscientious political engagements.” Married and the father of three, he lives in McLean, Virginia.

About Anne Snyder

Anne Snyder is the editor-in-chief of Comment magazine, **which is a core publication of Cardus, a think tank devoted to renewing North American social architecture, rooted in two thousand years of Christian social thought. Visit comment.org for more information.

For years, Anne has been engaged in concerns for the social architecture of the world. That is, the way that our practices of social engagement, life, conversation, discussion, debate, and difference can all be held in the right kind of ways for the sake of the thriving of people, individuals, communities, and our nation at large.

Anne also oversees Comment’s partner project, Breaking Ground, and is the host of The Whole Person Revolution podcast and co-editor of Breaking Ground: Charting Our Future in a Pandemic Year (2022).

About David Goatley

David Emmanuel Goatley is president of Fuller Seminary. Prior to his appointment in January 2023, he served as the associate dean for academic and vocational formation, Ruth W. and A. Morris Williams Jr. Research Professor of Theology and Christian Ministry, and director of the Office of Black Church Studies at Duke Divinity School. Ordained in the National Baptist Convention, USA, he served as pastor of the First Baptist Church of Campbellsville, Kentucky, for nine years (1986–1995).

In addition to his articles, essays, and book chapters, Goatley is the author of Were You There? Godforsakenness in Slave Religion and A Divine Assignment: The Missiology of Wendell Clay Somerville, as well as the editor of Black Religion, Black Theology: Collected Essays of J. Deotis Roberts. His current research focuses on flourishing in ministry and thriving congregations, most recently working on projects funded by the Lilly Endowment and the Duke Endowment.

Show Notes

• What each guest values and honours about America, expressing commitment and affection as citizens
• “Any presidential inauguration is weight bearing.”
• Pete Wehner: a first-generation American
• From ideals to reality about the history of America
• “ I’m the kind of patriot who is committed to the country being the best that it can be.”
• “Rambunctious unfolding-still … democratic experiment.”
• The scene for Inauguration Day 2021
• Strength and vitality of American life
• What are your commitments and hopes for the next four years?
• “Some of my siblings for whom their angst is new, and I’m happy to say, welcome to my world.”
• The posture of believers and people of good will to “keep a moral ethical grounding”
• “Justice, especially for the dispossessed, the aliens, the powerless”
• Pulled in different directions
• Eugene Peterson formulation: “There’s the Jesus truth, and the Jesus way.”
• Called to be different things at different moments
• Name reality as best we can
• “Is it possible to be both prophetic and the force of unity at the same time?”
• Will there be a World War III in the next decade?
• Creative ways to develop resilience
• “A great chastening”
• “I feel both curious and really concerned.”
• When patience runs out
• “ I'm socially and humanly curious—and strangely a little hopeful for new frames of how we are with one another—but I am steeling myself for turbulence and violence at a time when it feels like we can't afford those things.”
• The shifting global stage
• The need for deep compassion and energy that doesn’t stop listening or caring
• What rejuvenates and renews you in this moment?
• Being outside, natural beauty, artistic beauty, and staying actively in community with people who will stay reflective.
• Turning off the news
• National Gallery of Art’s Impressionist exhibit (link)
• “For most of us, our day-to-day lives, even in the political realm, are not really driven primarily by what's happening with the presidency.”
• Jon Batiste
• “Healthy, substantive arguments that are not ad hominem”
• Are we living in the post-civility era?
• Peacemaking instead of polarization
• Developing civic antibodies and the need for regeneration and renewal
• “Something has gone deeply wrong in the white evangelical world”
• “ I'm completely fine with deconstruction as long as there’s reconstruction.”
• “There’s a great line that the ancient Greeks used, Bobby Kennedy used that in a speech of his in the late ‘60s, where he said that the task was to tame the savageness of man and to make gentle the life of this world.”
• Prayers for Donald Trump
• That the Spirit of God would overshadow Donald Trump and political leaders
• That “Not our will but Thy will be done.”
• For moral sensitivity
• ”I'll just be candid here. I have a sense that he's a, he is a person with a lot of brokenness in his life.”
• “We’re part of a story, and there’s an author. … But those chapters aren’t the whole story.”
• A notorious chapter in American history

Production Credits

Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.