109: Dating & Relationships Deep Dive w/ Noah Smith and Katherine Dee (Default Friend)

"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg

This week on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode of Econ102. Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith talk with Katherine Dee (@default_friend) about dating in the 21st century, differences in dating markets, the impact of feminism, technology's influence on cultural creativity, societal shifts, and the state of online subcultures.

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RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:

🎙️Econ102 with Noah Smith

Keeping econ entertaining - Noahpinion author Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg break down business news and politics every week.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1696419056

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6q7Gn5lP8TTtBPuV1NJSGs

🎙️Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

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LINKS:

Default Friend: https://default.blog/

Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/

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X / TWITTER:

@default_friend

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

• Dating markets vary dramatically by city and class, with different standards of attraction and success between tech hubs, creative centers, and smaller cities.
• COVID's social damage persists, with 30% of young men sexless and many third spaces (bars, cafes) permanently lost, weakening natural meeting opportunities.
• Social media has replaced college as the primary connector, fundamentally changing how young people form relationships across geographic boundaries.
• While online gender discourse is extreme, real-world dating attitudes are moderate - most people aren't living out manosphere or radical feminist ideologies.
• "Situationships" dominate modern dating - undefined, low-commitment arrangements reflecting broader avoidant attachment trends and fear of direct communication.
• Social platforms evolved from enhancing real-world connections to replacing them, prompting calls for increased "friction" to encourage meaningful interaction.
• Modern dating faces new challenges: declining testosterone, political division, AI relationships, and dating app culture replacing organic connection.
• Dating advice has overcomplicated simple human connections - basic attraction and compatibility monetized into unnecessary complexity.
• Cultural influence has fragmented from central platforms into dispersed channels, making trends harder to track and predict.