39: Buses - Hydrogen vs Batteries (1/2)

Redefining Energy - TECH

In this episode, host Michael Barnard engages in an enlightening conversation with Michael Raynor, co-author of The Innovator’s Solution and an expert in carbon reduction strategies. Raynor shares his personal journey into sustainability, the evolution of his focus on decarbonization, and his current work developing innovative solutions for addressing corporate carbon challenges. A key topic in the discussion is the Raynor’s new firm, S3 Markets, which emphasizes the need to decarbonize upstream commodities to meet net zero commitments. Rayner highlights the difficulty corporations face in managing Scope 3 emissions and suggests shifting from traditional carbon offsets to “insets,” where companies pool small investments to make a meaningful impact. This approach targets the 80-90 high-emission commodities responsible for the bulk of industrial emissions, which make up 15% of global GDP.
The conversation takes a practical turn as Raynor discusses Mississauga’s hydrogen bus pilot program. He recounts how he identified potential issues with the initiative and reached out directly to the city’s mayor and council. His insights led to an invitation to present his findings to the Mississauga City Council on October 30th.
The conversation turns to Barnard’s dive into the CUTRIC (Canadian Urban Transit Research and Innovation Consortium) in advancing urban transit decarbonization through research and policy recommendations, as well as some red flags.
Barnard and Raynor explore the financial and environmental trade-offs between hydrogen and battery-electric buses. Barnard provides a critical analysis of data from California and the EU’s JIVE program, showing that hydrogen buses come with significant costs for refuelling infrastructure and maintenance. Comparatively, for the cost of five hydrogen buses, municipalities could procure twelve battery-electric buses, making the latter more attractive both financially and environmentally.
The episode wraps up with a closer look at CUTRIC’s recent report for Brampton, where Barnard identifies questionable assumptions about hydrogen system costs. One factor alone, the cost assumption for gray hydrogen could have a $200 million swing, dwarfing the $10 million variance called out justifying a blended hydrogen + battery electric fleet instead of a battery electric only fleet.
Raynor examines the varying carbon costs of different hydrogen types—gray, blue, and green—and emphasizes the importance of carefully choosing technologies based on actual benefits. The battery-electric buses offer superior emissions reduction per dollar spent.