Moon (2nd Nature) - The Language of Dance - Noise of the Broke Boys - Episode 006
Manage episode 279346370 series 2835172
Moon, an amazing dancer from Korea, discusses his journey to America and how the language of dance helped him gain friends and family despite not speaking much English.
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A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.
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[Music]
in this episode I sit with a great
friend of mine moon Li this guy's like a
brother to me
we built our crew second-nature together
and have grown our love for hip-hop as a
family
he is a locker originally from Korea
that made his way to America to
eventually make a career as a dancer I
have learned a ton from this guy and
have a huge respect for his work ethic I
hope you can gain as much from his story
as I did please enjoy
hello everybody welcome to the ghetto a
show ever we are today on site in an
attic looking kind of kind of
questionable right yeah we don't have a
studio because we don't have a budget
our budget was $5 and unfortunately we
spent it all on Moon's haircut and so
without further ado today I have my good
friend mr. moon Lee K number one what
else did you go by go by my name now
yeah I think that's a good decision so
what's up man how you been good good
good how are you I'm good dude I've been
you know working hard trying to make
some stuff happen um with the show and
with my life and whatever and so you
know I know because you and I don't live
in the same area anymore we don't get to
talk as much and now so it's good to
have you here him so we can like catch
up and stuff yeah it's a good catch no
yeah
um so what I want to talk to you about
today is like how you got into hip-hop
because you know you are originally from
Korea and then you moved out here to
America basically to be a dancer and get
more involved in the hip-hop scene right
and I guess I want to I want to hear
your story behind then how you ended up
where you are today mm-hmm so actually I
came to America 2007 and when I first
came here how the
[Music]
came here as a just exchange student
mm-hmm I was gonna just study I was
gonna just learn English here and the
goal was just to learn English hmm and
nothing about dance nothing about
hip-hop or nothing about what I do now
hmm because in Korea back in the day
when I first started dancing and stuff
people didn't really take this as
courier we didn't have much of jobs
relate to like hip-hop or dance anything
Korean b-boys were very popular back
then I mean still do but still it wasn't
like their main job they had to work
somewhere else and pursue as a b-boy so
it wasn't in my head that I could take
this as my career so it was locking not
popular in Korea definitely not okay
definitely not popular how I got into it
was um it was type of kind of PE class
like you know you say here um cuz
education is very important in Asian
countries in general yeah and we stay in
school like almost like 13 14 hours a
day so and they put these PE classes
like one or two hours a week
not even a like a week and I had to
choose indifferent activities and I
chose to learn dance so it wasn't even
like locking it was just like dance in
general and when I first started taking
those classes I got to know about
popping and locking mainly so like I
don't even say I knew about hip-hop I
was more like funk styles
so I was listening to funk musics I
didn't really listen to rap music until
like I came here so I was very
interested in like funk music yes so you
were you you are introduced to funk
music from the dancing classes that you
took yes because they'll play those
musics to learn those foundations
locking foundations and popping
foundation and was it a lot of like
American funk or was it yeah yeah yeah
we did not we do not have funk music
Korea I think there's Korean funk now
though yeah like now I mean like even
back then there was similarities but it
wasn't for that yeah I guess it's blown
up a lot more since you moved yes yes
yes yes so that's how I got into it and
so it was just in a way of hoppy like
kind of way of kinda let the stress out
yeah all those studying and staying in
school for how many hours studying in
Korea sounds really crazy yes it's
pretty intense
my high school we started 7 a.m. and we
and like around 11 p.m. so what the heck
so like it's pretty it's pretty intense
you don't do anything except go to
school then pretty much but because it's
so competitive like some students would
go to like other places even study more
what the heck so because it's really
hard to get into universities and
colleges in Korea so that's just how it
is now I know that's pretty crazy thing
because I know how Americans are but you
know we only know what we have so I had
no idea that was pretty crazy
yeah that sounds crazy to me I mean dang
because typical school for an American
kid
high school kid I guess we would start
seven thirty or something and they would
go to like maybe three thirty or
something you usually have six classes
and there are all hour long and then you
know whatever break between them and
whatever we have like seven eight
classes to you know like classes are
pretty similar but we just have to stay
there to study your own that's crazy
yes like they force you to study your
own man I would go home in high school I
would just go home well I was doing
martial arts back then so I would go
straight to the studio take some classes
or whatever or train and then I would go
home and do my homework as I watch TV
and I mean like I half-assed all my
homework honestly but I got good grades
actually yeah but that lifestyle ends
for us around like 11 - oh really
like that's that's it after that you
have to study but back into the topic so
for me because I was getting a lot of
stress you know like lifestyle in a
Korean educational lifestyle so dance
really came to me as like outlet of
releasing my stress mm-hmm so whether I
knew it or not it was becoming my in a
way my love because it was so stressful
and that was the only thing that I liked
and those one hour two hours of a week
was very special to me
hmm so I just fed in love with that
whole culture I didn't know what hip-hop
was at all and all I knew was just bumps
tiles funk cultures so like my favorite
artists were like definitely James Brown
BT Express you know like those old
school school bands
gap band you know whatnot
so and I thought America would love bunk
still - yeah so when I first came here
20 years 30 years before that yeah yeah
I got I had no idea was like back in the
base stuff like I thought people will
still love funk music people will still
do the line dances you know like those
those were my expectations yeah I mean
people still do it but it's not as like
but not our age yes you know they are
out there doing the whatever this shit
yeah yeah we can floss dance and stuff
mm-hmm
so that's that's how I got into in a way
of hip-hop but I wouldn't still say
hip-hop because um I was kind of gainst
to 2007 modern hip hop's mmm so like I
wouldn't listen Lil Wayne out of listen
to jay-z like I wouldn't listen to them
to me like James Brown is my you knows
yeah yeah yeah yeah
so ya know I was actually the same way I
was really into funk music - and a lot
of the hip-hop I would listen to I was
like oh this it's cool like I like it
but there's something magical to the the
funk styles that actually influenced
these hip-hop artists I mean obviously
hip-hop has its own magic behind it too
but it was just like I guess I mean what
drew me into hip-hop was that you were
like making your own thing out of this
pre-existing stuff that and you would
get your inspiration from it and so I
got deep into like funk music soul music
and stuff and jazz music and so I was
really into that and then a lot of the
new hip hop artists I was like I don't
even know who they are and so I didn't
start listening to them till a little
bit later I mean I would listen to them
occasionally like jay-z Tupac and people
like that I used to be really big into
Dell back then but yeah I mean I that
definitely came after the phone against
all kick that I was on mm-hmm and that
was around like high school mm-hmm
but going back to like what you're
talking before you said that dance was
like a stress relief kind of thing for
you what yeah what do you think why do
you think that is like what about it
relieved the stress to you
I think first because we didn't like I
didn't have much of activities like
physical activities so that's definitely
like main reason why it kind of like
gave me a lot of freedom and like
release he's like I'll be sitting down
like hours of day and that typical hour
I cannot even sit you know like I have
to let it out and I have to like listen
to music and I had to basically move you
know so like that was definitely reason
why I think was that like the only time
you got to actually listen to music no I
will listen to Korean music so you know
like now kpop is popular one that but I
was listening to you know like when you
study your own like you yeah yeah so
yeah I will listen to music but
physically doing something with my body
with music yeah that was different
yeah definitely it's yeah okay so yeah
so it was I guess it yeah is the
physical activity mixed with this this
music this hypnotic kind of like music
that helped to relieve your stress and
so did you do you think that that like
inspired your creativity to and that had
something to do with it um at the moment
I did not know yeah but later now I
think about it yes I think it did and
then it kind of like enhanced my like
creativity you know like my art form and
whatnot so like it you know it helped me
a lot yeah I have like a theory that
that music and I guess kind of tip
repetitive type sounds um it triggers
something in our brains to make us
like turn off the thinking part of your
brain and turn on the more like
instinctual part of your brain which is
to make you move usually you know like
like in instance of like you hear a big
sound you go and you run mm-hmm I think
that somehow repetitive music clicks on
that part of your brain but instead of
you running and being scared or whatever
it's like going oh no this isn't a
fearful time this is a time to be
creative mm-hmm and so I think in the
same way that your instinct tells you to
run it's now your instinct is telling
you okay let we're not in danger anymore
we can do we can do some cool things
with with our mind and our body to you
know hopefully like instill our survival
or whatever you know and so you know I'm
not some kind of scientist that knows
anything about this but that's just my
theory because it seems like that
happens to everybody you know whenever
they are like painting or whatever
writing a lot of people will put on
music and it just gets them into this
new world where they can like shut off a
little part of their brain and turn on a
new part of their brain yeah yeah you
know I guess just shut off what is it
the right side of your brain and turn on
the left side the mhmmm that's your
analytical side to your your artistic
side mm-hmm so yeah I think somehow that
that is involved with dancing and and
why we're drawn to it it's like so
somewhat of a human instinct to want to
do it yeah yeah you know you see little
kids dancing around doing that I don't
notice your kid actually do that she
actually she actually dances she loves
music um you know like it's in their
blood it's in their blood her my
brother-in-law is music producer oh yeah
so like we yeah we like shout out to
Rudi shout out the rule are you oh yeah
we yeah we try to feed her like goop
musics and like you know different dance
moves try to like show her different
dance moves and
it's kind of amazing how this young
toddlers they just move freely yeah you
know it's like amazing to see to me
that's hip-hop when I see that cuz it's
like before hip-hop was even deemed
hip-hop right before it ever had a name
what was it it was people at like a
dance party just having fun yeah it was
like oh I like this part of the song or
like it looks like all the people and
danced for like this song let me play
that part of the song again dude it and
that's what a break was and then all
these people are just dancing and then
all of a sudden they just lose their
mind and jump on the floor and that was
breaking yep and so when I see a little
kid do the same thing you know when I
don't know you know some song old town
road or whatever song on the radio and
the little kid starts dancing and
rolling around on the ground I'm like
dude that is breaking right there that's
hip-hop that's like we built up the
whole culture of breaking and hip-hop
dance styles from that exact emotion I
like seeing that and it seems to me like
it's the best argument that hip-hop is
like is like a very deep instinctual
thing for yeah human beings beings yeah
so the next thing I wanted to talk to
you about is so like once you came to
America like how how did it feel coming
to America and like integrating into our
culture and like what was the
differences between here in Korea I know
you talked about school and stuff but
what else like cuz it seems like it'd be
a huge culture shock
it was definitely huge culture shock and
I actually the first city I came here
was our Albarn in like yeah yeah yeah
like so which is kind of country town
and like yeah like north of sack or so
yeah
okay it's in the mountain and I was like
literally Olli like few Asians in that
whole town oh yeah people freaked out
seeing me back then like not a problem
it's probably not because I saw the
sushi restaurant in there I was like
whoa like people who eat agent food yeah
yeah it was like it's changed but back
then it was pretty intense
mmm like people like I wouldn't
understand why people stare at me like
that and like I didn't know it was kind
of like I wouldn't say racism because I
say just because I was different
yeah I wouldn't say it was racist I
think it's probably that because I was
different yeah you just I mean cuz you I
mean you might have been wearing your
crazy Genie pants or something yeah you
know like they probably felt like I was
some type of clown you know like oh yeah
my fashion you know like how like
definitely I didn't speak a word in
English oh that might go yeah so people
just but yeah I mean people in Auburn a
lot of them are kind of like more
country type of people yeah
more rural they because it's a smaller
town north east of Sacramento and you
know people people out there I guess
have kind of a slower lifestyle not not
like a city in style yet running around
all the time it's like you know they
they'll have their big house somewhere
and then you know go to work and stuff
yeah but it's usually in the sea yeah
hey yeah much as much love to my town
that's all I burn is a great pad is my
town much love I love I love Auburn
actually well yeah it's it's to see you
know someone who looks like a kpop star
walking around they're kind of like oh
what's going on that's good like yeah
where's his horse so yeah um but
definitely I learned how to enjoy like
small things in life you know like
watching sunrise and sons
I never knew there was like such a
beautiful thing I never knew that until
I got there hmm and like enjoying just
landscaping just little things in life
is is there not a lot of them like
nature type of areas in Korea we do we
do but I'm from like very busy city
Seoul so okay so like our population is
like crazy yeah as crazy it's like the
biggest city in yeah the population yeah
population is so crazy and lifestyle is
just so busy you know like I guess if
that's all you've ever seen coming here
where there's a lot more space you know
Sacramento is kind of spread out and
definitely when you go to Auburn it's
even more spread out yeah you know it's
very you know you it's not like a city
at all there's no buildings that are
more than two or three stone yeah yeah
that's what I loved about though like I
could really see the sky yeah I could
really hear the birds sounds you know
like those things kind of like open my
eyes in a way those are the kind of good
parts and bad parts were like and yeah
these people will not accepting me yes
what I was you know so I actually came
up with my English name because of that
because I had yeah Charlie I used to
call myself Charlie because I had trauma
like if I say my name people will just
instantly react kind of like whoa what
is that what is that you know like what
is the Korean pronunciation like moon
hang wouldn't hang that my full name is
moon hang Lee but hang like a lot of
people can't pronounce it's like I got
tired of explaining like I do you know
what I'm gonna just go moon tell me that
you that Lee is pronounced something
different and yeah yeah it's actually E
right yeah we we go by E and then we put
last name first so like my name is e
moon hang but then here it changed to
Lee I don't know how like I don't know
i but you have to change it to Li huh
and here I'm moon Lee yeah that's kind
of weird so when you go to Korea it's
like you have a new identity or new like
names yeah names are completely
different so those little things oh and
my name being Korea horiuchi curt yeah I
mean I guess whore you Chi cuz it's a
Japanese name they're probably used to
that yeah Kurt I wouldn't I would
imagine they would have trouble
pronouncing that because I know in
Japanese they yeah now like Korea like
we we are very culturally open mm-hmm -
especially American culture yeah yeah so
yeah Kurt wouldn't be a problem okay
Karuma be a problem oh no like a
Japanese people call me cat oh because
it the yeah the air is like kind of a
weird sound yeah for them and doesn't
really exist in their language so so
yeah so when you came to America you're
in Auburn and then you were dancing
still right or like or were you just
working at the sushi restaurant and you
may oh you meant surf boogie boogie yes
shoutout to sir shoutout to cert boogie
yeah so I wasn't like really dancing at
first I was just going to school but uhm
because of language barrier and because
of you know like lack of human
interaction I kind of got into depressed
depression hmm because you know like you
wouldn't talk like I wasn't able to talk
to human in general yeah it's like ya
know I can imagine that that's cut it's
like it's I mean it's kind of like how
when my dog is like looking at me and
she tries to like tell me something I
know my I don't know what your job
exactly dog probably is like crap that's
the exact reaction I'll get from people
yeah so and I did
want to hang out with my people like
Korea's oh did not want to speak Koreans
in America yeah I was very strict on
that because I wanted to learn English
and I wanted to that this culture as
fully as possible
mm-hmm so so I kind of put myself in the
situation so I had to do something about
it
to get out of that depression mmm
that's when I you know started dancing
again on my own hmm so when was that
about that was about like 2007 so the
gap between starting and stopping it's
stopping in Korea and then starting back
in America how long was that like I kind
of stopped dancing because of you like
SAT back in Korea yeah so I had to
really focus on like studying okay so I
stopped about an year in half you're in
half I stopped and came back to came to
America so I'll say two years about two
years I stopped and I was like this like
I have to do something and yeah I
started dancing again on my own and yeah
and I was a boss er because they
wouldn't accept me as a server because
my English wasn't good so I was bussing
at this sushi restaurant and not in the
Opera and Albarn didn't did not have a
sushi restaurant back then yeah they
probably have one now but I don't they
do have they do have Asian food there
yeah so I had to like drive all the way
to Rockland and I used to work at this
sushi restaurant and they kind of knew I
was dancing this and that like in a way
and this customer came in and I guess
someone told him that I was dancer and
he was like you know what I'll battle
you for your tip like that it's rude
mean that's a hella rude right like
that's a hell
but to me it was like oh my god this is
like real America I know you know like I
watched the like you got served or like
all those real now I was like oh this is
America did you go and like put on your
vest and your glove because I had to get
hat work later so I told him like a my
break is in like an hour so I got wait
right yeah I was like and then he we
went out there and then he played music
through his car yeah yeah and we just
started battling and this was surf
boogie right if this was surfing the
white man the tall white man shoutout to
surf but then being a really great guy
so after like you know like I think we
danced about like 20 30 minutes straight
and then there was like one of craziest
experience in my life at the same time
like I never felt that happy in my life
like I still remember how I felt
yes I could not sleep that night because
he was I was so happy about it dang so
tight after the battle he was like oh my
god you're so dope obviously I did not
understand what he was saying he said
now I know but he was saying that like
how good I was and then he invited me to
this public performance with his crew
yeah and it was a flexible flame yeah
which was my crew which was your crew
and which became my crew later yeah and
but there was a performance for Martin
Martin Luther King Day yeah I still
remember that what was I there no you
weren't there Convention Center and
flexible Flav had a junior crew
I forgot their names whose legendary
legendre's yeah yeah me and my brother
started that me my brother and a bunch
of other people we started that crew
yeah and eventually when we went to
flexible Flav and then
and then yeah that crew continued on I
think by the time you came there was
like a bunch of other people like I
think we kind of revamped it and there
was a lot of people yes so like a young
you know like junior crew it wasn't
mainly legendary steps not the flexible
Flav but we they put the Flexi Flav name
I think did Vince um did he put together
that show yes okay that's where I met
Vince yeah okay so I met bill wasn't
there you weren't there huh you were not
there I mean I was going to UC Davis at
the time so I probably was so I met
Vince there and then I perform with the
crew flexible Flav and Vince was like so
interested in me Vince was very
interested in me and then he was like
why don't you come to our practice yeah
yeah and that's how I like first started
making friends mm-hmm I still couldn't
speak English but like I knew that he
liked my dancing yeah people like my
dancing so that's yeah that's how I know
I remember when you would come to
practices you would just be like killing
it like doing all your locking stuff and
like I don't know much about locking at
the time and so I would see you and I
was like oh dang this guy's going off
and I like I think I would walk up to
you and be like dude you're really tight
and you'd be like yeah I know you like
you know and then I think eventually you
understood like what I was saying or
like or whatever I mean I don't know how
somehow we communicated it a little bit
I mean it's probably just the language
of dance like yeah and you go oh you're
dope and you're like I don't know what
dope means but then I go and I shake
your hand you're like oh he probably
means it I'm dope yeah it's it's very
that's pretty interesting about human
like in erection yeah like you do not
really need language to communicate with
people that is one thing I really
learned through the
those moments yeah when you see someone
go like ah during your like round that
probably means that you dope you
definitely understand who who's
respecting you and you definitely
understand who's disrespecting you
without understanding language you know
so and because of dance and I'll say
hip-hop in general because we had very
common interest mm-hmm so I think that's
how I fell in love with hip-hop a lot
because hip-hop he pop because of
hip-hop I could make my first friend in
America because of hip-hop I did not
need language to interact with humans so
there was very you know like literally
like Americans say hip-hop saved me yeah
a little did that to me you know like I
wasn't in the ghetto but I was in like
you know all that Bronx and all that but
it literally saved me from getting
depressed yeah no I can see that I mean
I I feel like a lot of people would have
that same reactor they have a similar
story where hip-hop really did save
their life whether they were actually in
real danger or they were just in a dark
place you know hip-hop does have this
like thing that it kind of just envelops
your whole life and you're like it's
hard to be in a in a bad mood while you
are participating in it while you're
dancing while you're like deejaying or
whatever like you're making art with you
know whatever things you're trying to
make art with it's hard to be mad at
that you're during during that so yeah I
could see how that would pull you out of
a bad place yeah and after that you know
we made our own crew second nature and
that's everything how everything started
for me yeah and so then when we
once we made second nature we were like
you know our our mission was to like
make these show make really cool shows
just kind of pull in talents from all
sorts of different places because you
know we all a lot of us all had
different styles right yes yes and that
was like the the big thing that we
wanted to make sure that we always
because we you know although we liked a
lot of those those groups that had kind
of this one unit style like JA blocky
shout out to them they have this style
where like you know it's Jabbawockeez
mm-hmm they all like dance and it's hard
to tell because they would all wear
their masks and it's like hard to tell
who's who because they're so in sync but
for us we were like let's uh let's try
to pull in all these different styles
and try to figure out how they blend
together and make these make these
interesting shows and so mm-hmm I think
it was really fun to do that and I
really I really miss doing that actually
me too
I think we actually had that talk when
you visit Vegas mm-hmm we definitely had
something going on with that you know
like open minded people ya get together
and try to be artistic yeah I think what
was cool about it was that the vision we
had I guess the vision there wasn't
necessarily like set in stone it was
kind of like you'd have an idea and
you'd put it on the table and then I
would have an idea and I'd put it on the
table and then Vince would have an idea
put it on the table and then somehow all
of our brains just kind of click
together and then we just start
combining these ideas together and make
something out of all of it and you know
and then that's what we would just ride
with that and then as we go more people
were throwing their input and stuff and
we would just take it off and we never I
don't think we we were good about kind
of just saying let's just see what
happened yeah yeah we were really good
at that yeah just cause like sometimes
someone would have some wild-ass idea
just you I mean yeah I would have a lot
of wild outside because I I tend to just
say like I might as well just say it and
you know basically throw the shit at the
wall and hopefully you know I'm fine
with throwing as much stuff as I have at
a wall and if it all falls down it's
okay but if some of is good that's fine
and so um I like to do that and so when
I would throw it out there sometimes
people would go like oh I wonder what
would happen if we actually did mm-hmm
go somewhere sometimes though I think
everybody was really good about doing
that yeah yeah just thrown out there
wild ass ideas mm-hmm and we were just
all open-minded you know like we had
respect I think that's what got us
really together yeah we suspect yeah I
mean I think everybody in the group was
very knowledgeable about their specific
style of dance and they all everyone had
a very creative they came from a very
creative place and so you know everyone
was open to these ideas and so we all
would just kind of roll with it yeah see
what happens man yeah um so anyway so
like with second nature
eventually right you moved to Vegas
right to do jabberwocky show mm-hmm
right and so you did that for like a
year or so yeah
so at first I because I was only like
locking dancer I didn't know any other
style
I knew poppin a little bit yeah
locking and it wasn't really my my craft
you audition for those things yeah but
um this one summer I think was summer
Vince had this ticket to be booed
convention in Las Vegas it was UBC right
yes yes that's mr. Frieza thinks that
says yeah and Diane Diane Keaton Moreau
uh
remember her name but she got us tickets
and Vince was like um you want to go to
Vegas and I was like sure you know and
it was actually close to my end of my
time being in America so like I just
wanted to experience different things so
we went cuz your green card was running
yeah because of my visa was recently
yeah and so I'll said yes and then we
drove down to LA and then we audition
different things that was my first
audition in like America like industry
auditions and I experienced different
things there and then we went to Vegas
and Jabbawockeez performed at ubc mmm
and okay this was driving around Vegas
and I was like I told Vince a bitch
still remembers this moment too
I told Vince that hey I think this is
what I want to do like dance
I think dance is what I want to do and I
don't know how but I really want to
perform here Vince remembers that yeah
yeah and I told him that and year later
I think year later there was a dition
for Jabbawockeez cuz they were getting
their first resident show as a hip hop
crew in Las Vegas yeah this was like
maybe two years after they they won that
ABB show yeah yeah Erika's Best Dance
Crew yeah there's the first season I
think yeah they were the first winner
they they were the first winner and so
they were making a lot I mean they had
newly found popularity among like crowds
outside of Dance c'mon the dance
community and so they were sitting up a
lot of stuff and then yeah getting a
resident show in Vegas right and you
were one of the people that auditioned
for that yeah so I auditioned for just
for experience and luckily I got picked
and then I got picked to play a main
role so I got to play
their main role in Las Vegas and that
kind of put me as a first Korean to play
main role in Las Vegas and that's kind
of how I started my career I think so
after playing main role in their show
they trusted me enough to give me a 30
to run the whole theater because that
moment we were getting offered in
Australia and East Coast as well so we
had to prepare for three different shows
with three different cast yeah so they
yeah they trust me to run so they pretty
much gave me the theater Montecarlo back
the Monte Carlo theater now that it's a
park MGM and we had about 1,500 seats we
were performing about seven shows a week
and we did that about here yeah we did
that about a year and yeah there was
that just opened my eyes yeah that just
opened my eyes to it and they moved to
Luxor and that's when I kinda like um
stopped not stopped dancing I was still
dancing but I was doing the more
business side of them so I was in the
management side of the company and I was
that's when I learned a lot about
business because you know millions of
dollars are just moving in front of my
face yeah yeah that's where I learned
yeah was any of that flowing into your
pocket I'm like millions of dollars
they're not gonna miss this one million
no no it's just you know I was a salary
no it was you were seeing the huge
success of the Jabbawockeez show like
blowing up because at around that
time it was like the Jabbawockeez had so
much fame you know little kids were
dressing up as them for like Halloween
and stuffing it was like a cultural
phenomenon at that time and so they had
this show that was just blowing up and
so I went from like a crew of people
that were you know basically dancing at
a studio in in Sacramento and various
other places in California to like this
show that was you know how many shows a
night like right now I believe they're
doing ten shows a night at MGM right and
they were filling out their crowds so
there's tons of money coming here so it
was like a huge probably like business
shocked yes like oh dang we can we have
we can pull in money like that yes I
literally so cuz they had a like three
days deal it was just it was supposed to
be three days performing but it became
ten years contract with MGM so I saw
that whole progress in front of my face
yeah that's crazy so and yeah like they
gave me opportunity to learn and trust
me too
running yeah for them so big shout out
to Jabberwocky shout-out to Jabbawockeez
I would put a mask on right now but I
don't have a mask yeah when I get a mask
do you have a mask yeah I do I still I
still have masks that I were in the show
do you ever you ever just put it on like
at home and just like look at yourself
in your handsome fellow
yeah Jabbawockeez open my eyes changed
my career and taught me a lot of things
they're still my mentors yeah they're
still my mentors whenever I struggle
with this you know like I go to them and
talk to them and whatever I can do for
them I'll gladly do yeah yeah yeah and
they're still doing their shows out
there and yeah they're they're still
doing amazing they just finished
to worry in China or Japan they're
preparing new show in at MGM um they're
just you know working yeah working very
hard yeah
so after Java you went to do the Cirque
show which is Michael Jackson yeah and
so how what was that like cuz that was
like a brand-new thing just like that
Cirque was trying to put on in Vegas and
so you were like the first the first you
know group of people to like come to the
do that show right they had actually
creation members okay so I was kind of
like I was one of first people to join
the crew other than creation member okay
so they created show in Montreal Canada
oh and then they did like ear before I
joined okay and then they you know late
and then they moved it yeah change some
cast and then that's when I joined and
brought you in and then evolved the show
to what it is now yes yeah and you were
how you helped with the evolution
process right in a way but I wouldn't
take too much credit for Cirque du
Soleil because um a lot of things were
created before I joined and because it's
a big corporation there's not a lot of
room for me to change things
oh I see because there's a lot of like
you know contracts and rules and you
know that's one thing about working at
Jabbawockeez and working at Cirque it's
a big difference because Jabbawockeez I
really took the ownership and I care I
guess because I the way I look at it
it's like Cirque a lot of that comes
from like circus like right it comes
from an actual circus like established
I don't know what how to call it but
whereas Java was like it came straight
from like a dancer hip-hop community and
so you had these people that were
already they're very creative and they'd
like to collaborate with each other to
make something whereas like I feel like
the circus mentality was more like they
have they do the creation and then they
have the performance and then they pull
in all the talent and they go okay
here's what it is
mhm so Cirque du Soleil and has very
strict rules and like still nowadays our
show and beetles love there's a show
called beetles love by Cirque de Soleil
those are the two main shows that has
dance is there like main thing
so using dancers are still very new to
to settle yeah so they don't really have
that dancer culture and then so they
still they're still trying to build that
culture in it especially with our show a
lot of hip-hop dancers are in it so
that's where like they're still trying
to figure things out feel it feels like
it yeah that's yeah so yeah a lot of new
culture a lot of new things for them too
and yeah I'm just part of it and what do
you think about how they've embraced
hip-hop do you think they're doing it in
a good way or like it do you think it's
good for the culture the way they're
embracing it or do you wish that they
maybe like did something a little bit
different or like what do you think in I
guess from the standpoint of like the
best thing for the hip-hop culture
mm-hmm I don't think not yet they
influenced that much in hip-hop culture
okay
because cert is just trying to take
something and change too in the into
their culture because lay is
self is a big culture you know like
clown you know so sir it's a circus and
then they're saying I'm gonna pull in
this dance element into what we already
did exactly
whereas Jabba is dance job I see pop
yourself in yeah yeah and they're
pulling in you know whatever into that
show but it's just it's dance yeah
that's what it is okay so I think um I
know I don't know if I can talk about it
right now
oh yeah you don't have to talk about it
if there's some kind of NDA or whatever
you got but I don't work for Soto slave
forever so I might just say it um I know
they're working on making hip-hop show
okay a Cirque du Soleil that's right ya
know but I don't know how that's gonna
turn out to be honest yeah uh I mean I
guess the way that I look at it is like
they have a big platform to and a lot of
eyes on it that probably don't know
anything about hip-hop mhm and so when I
look at it and I go okay well they're
introducing people into hip-hop mm-hmm I
think that's a good thing and I think
maybe the there's ways they could maybe
do it better and I'm not speaking about
sort specifically but I know that
there's there's good ways to do that and
maybe like less good ways but I think
overall it's good that hip-hop is being
introduced to people
mm-hmm I wouldn't say it's it's bad in
any way but so I think it's at least a
step in the right direction
mm-hmm to have a hip-hop show cuz like
you know when if someone who had no idea
what hip-hop is goes in to see the show
and they go oh what is that they
wouldn't have had that initial interest
if they hadn't experienced that
mm-hm and so I'm hoping that you know
say like you know 50% of the people that
walk into the show go oh wow what is
that and then 10% of that go to look up
actually what it is or maybe
go take a hip hop class mm-hmm and then
they start learning more about it that's
like getting you know 5% of the people
that were introduced you know into the
real kind of hip-hop scene that so I
think it's a good thing and then the and
then the 50% of people that saw it and
then didn't you know didn't necessarily
look into it or take a class there at
least familiar with it someone they'd
see it again in their life they're like
oh I remember that that's this thing
that I saw in Vegas or whatever mm-hmm I
wonder what that is it seems to like be
more prominent now especially like you
know if they see like breaking in the
Olympics which is coming in like four
years or whatever they're gonna see that
again and going oh wow that's cool I
wonder what's up with that and then you
know I think more and more people get
exposed to it a certain percentage of
them are gonna be interested in it
interested in the the I guess the the
deep underground scene of what it is you
know get like deeply involved in it I
hope I hope it does you know I hope
people actually think that they you know
but as you know like you know our
generations it's really hard to get deep
into something yeah that's kind of how I
feel like you know it is and I think
that's maybe because there's not a lot
of resources to jump into it right like
so if if I went to a Vegas show and I
saw you locking in you know in your in
Michael Jackson's show and I go oh
that's cool what is that and then I go
on to YouTube and I you know I don't
know what locking is so I type in
Michael Jackson dance you're probably
not gonna find locking you know what I
mean you're gonna probably find a lot of
cool dancing and stuff so I think if
there's more resources out there so that
when someone who does see that like say
at the Michael Jackson's show and then
they do like some you know search some
I'll call it naive search of what it is
they're able to find what the real stuff
is so when they type in Michael Jackson
and then they see someone who goes like
oh here's the dance that was in the
Michael Jackson show this is actually
called locking boom they see it oh you
know who else here's some history of
locking here's Don Campbell lock here's
all these you know all these other
people and stuff and here's like some
battles that happen a month ago you know
here's a scene here's you know whatever
so it kind of pulls you down the rabbit
hole so I think maybe it's hard to get
down the rabbit hole at the moment but I
think we're getting to that point though
it's happening I think you know with age
of the Internet mm-hmm there's
definitely resources on the Internet
yeah but how easy they are to find I
don't know I think it's getting harder
to find to me you do yeah because there
are too many 20 informations and yeah
there's not a lot of regulations of that
you know like there's a yeah there are a
lot of people that'll go in there and
say this is the real things and they're
like yeah this is locking in it's like I
think that's just you know having a
seizure but yeah going back to that um I
don't know I can't really tell about how
Cirque de Soleil
um influencing hip-hop culture in
general but it's influencing hip-hop
dancers for sure it's opening a lot of
doors um we're making good money mm-hmm
with the great benefit you know that's
it's literally heart like impossible to
get as a dancer yeah like having it was
unheard of ten years ago yeah in it was
unheard of like it never happened me
more dance as a hip hop dancer was not
any career you could do it was a hobby
Yeah right now it's a career mmm and
like I mean I'm not big fan of 401 K but
uh-huh getting a 401 K as a hip hop yeah
that's crazy dude yeah like it's crazy
no yes that's insane because it's it's
totally unheard of yeah
and for before now mm-hmm so it
definitely influencing hip-hop dancers
in very positive way Jose
open a lot of doors and you know a lot
of dreams a lot of young people can like
argue their parents hey mom I can make
them as many yeah yeah yeah who did this
hip-hop thing yeah and I'm hoping the
more and more hip-hop hip-hop dance
gets into the forefront of the community
that it becomes more of a viable career
mm-hmm beyond that like I'd like to see
it we're dancers hip-hop dancers get
recognized as like legitimate athletes
yes because that's what they are I mean
I think they're more than just athletes
because it's obviously the focus of it
is the creatives behind it so it's like
they're there are buses and and athletes
and so much more I mean it's but yeah
the the recognition yes it's not quite
there and it's definitely not where it
could be mm-hm so I'm excited to see
breaking in the Olympics because I think
that that's maybe a step in the right
direction because like I look at it as
if if if breaking is like skateboarding
which I think it very it is very similar
it's like a mm-hmm it's a counterculture
yeah I think that's the closest thing
yeah skateboarding was just like we got
this board with wheels and I figured out
how to do these cool tricks with it and
then a bunch of other kids picked up
skateboard and they started doing the
same cool tricks and then eventually
people saw it and was like oh those are
cool tricks I want to see more of it and
then it spread around through little
like VHS tapes all you know all around
the country and so more people more and
more people were seeing it and they're
like oh cool this is something cool and
then you you get some like legit
celebrities like Tony Hawk that you know
kind of make the make it blow up you
know and they get the X Games
stuff and that's kind of where he got a
lot of his fame from but you know they
get the X Games and so now it was on
like more public platform mm-hmm so more
people saw and it just blew up to the
point where there's like video games and
stuff and I think breaking has the same
kind of appeal to it yes I think hip-hop
dance has a lot has the same kind of
appeal to it people see it and they'll
go you know that is really cool I like
watching it I don't know what it is but
let's let's keep watching it I want to
see some competitions of it you know and
so then that's where like the Olympics
comes in or like the X Games or whatever
I mean I don't know what that looks like
in the future but it seems like it's
forming in that direction where it's not
just some underground thing it's more of
a publicly respected art form and yeah I
mean almost like a sport I would say you
know it's said I think it's very similar
to skateboarding and a lot of other
extreme sport yeah and and mixed martial
arts yeah you know they both I think all
those things started out very like
underground it was just like a small
community was into it and they all
started like more more people started
getting involved in it in it I think the
whole scene got their self together to
form like a sport a legitimate sport and
I think that that's what breaking is
going towards right now and I'm hoping
the other hip hop dance styles start
doing the same thing and we see it
emerge as like this legit sport I know
there's a big debate in the community
like is is it okay that we call it a
sport because it's it's an art form
above everything yeah for sure but in a
way it's different than an art form -
yeah typical like the way I look at art
I mean art can be anything but like if
we were talking about painting right
nothing in the painting culture is like
like competitive out saying you know
other than oh I want to you know get
this grant or whatever to do this
certain art work but like in hip-hop
dancing there's always been this
competitive nature too like a battle
somebody right mm-hm and so in a way
that does put it into a sport category
too because you know that I would say
the difference between it is the
competitive nature right in competitive
is a sport and that something that's not
competitive is maybe more of an art form
breaking sits somewhere in between that
too and so we don't want to lose we
don't want to lose art form to become a
sport yeah but you you got to also admit
that there's some sport qualities to it
so I'm interested to see where it ends
up yeah I'm very interested like I'm
very interested in how they're gonna
judge yeah you talk to a lot of people a
lot of b-boys on this podcast actually
about how the judging is gonna go
because I mean I don't know we're at an
hour right now we can talk about this
actually
um so like cuz when I look at it the
judging goes like this normally you have
like three judges or five judges or
whatever and they go they watch this
battle and they go okay I like that guy
yeah it's more personal
yeah and it all comes down to like their
subjective opinion about that and so now
when you go to like the Olympics or
something they're they're gonna require
some criteria yeah so yeah you you know
you as a judge you voted that way but
why and then you go oh well he he showed
more musicality he showed more
foundation he showed more dynamics
whatever you want to say and then they
go but how do you quantify that exactly
and then I think it all breaks down at
that point it's like okay well
I say his was better than his but where
did you call like what's the quantity
yeah but what like so I gave this guy
five points I gave that guy four points
for his let's say dynamics okay but why
mm-hmm it all breaks down from there
because then you go okay well he did
this freeze a little bit sharper than
that guy mm-hmm and then you go but this
guy's freeze was different from his
freeze so you're comparing apples to
oranges right
and then he go okay well yeah maybe his
freeze was a little more difficult his
was sharper but he also did it into this
other movie and it's like yeah but
you're still comparing apples to oranges
so everything breaks down at that point
because now it just goes to this your
subjective opinion about yeah about the
dance
yeah I personally I like that that's a
part of the judging that you get these
judges and they go I I like this more
than this just as a dancer because it's
it's it's fun for me to watch this
compared to that and so in the judge in
judging I don't want to lose that but I
also want to be able to quantify it so
that it makes sense to other people that
don't understand it yeah and so on this
on the on the Olympics platform I don't
know how you do that and I've been
talking to a lot of people and I don't
think anybody has really figured out a
good way to do that yeah I don't think
anybody has figured it out yeah you know
and so the thing the thing that I've
been telling a lot of people that I that
maybe is how you got to do it is you say
okay well we have we have this let's
call it bias you know each judge is
gonna have their own bias towards
certain thing yeah and it all comes down
to what they like and what they don't
like we don't want to lose that aspect
so let's just say okay that counts us
something
but we don't want to have one judge
completely dictated because they have
this bias because we're gonna we're
gonna embrace that there's a bias but
let's also let's also get more judges to
help weed out bad biases you know what I
mean and so my thought is that instead
of three judges instead of five judges
let's say you had twenty judges right
and they all give their opinion they're
all from different areas different eras
or whatever you know they all have their
different opinions about it and the
majority of them say this guy won over
that guy won I think that means
something especially when you look at
what we're like braking and hip hop
dance started from it started as like a
competition between two people at like a
dance party and what were you trying to
do you were trying to outshine the guy
you're going against yep by showing off
essentially and who are you showing off
to you're showing off to your opponent
obviously but also to the crowd you were
trying to get a good crowd applause so
my thought is that if your crowd now is
a lot of knowledgeable judges
you're staying true to the history of
hip-hop still and you're not losing this
important opinion and art creative based
judging but you're also weeding out
opinions that aren't the minority maybe
mmm-hmm maybe there's some more problems
that come along with that I don't know
there there could easily be that because
you know I think there are legitimate
parts of the dance that go as like an
under underdog kind of opinion but they
do matter so a lot of those might not
shoot up to the forefront of it but I
would say if you're getting if you're
pulling judges a lot of judges from you
know unique places in the dance you're
at least you're at least getting a good
sample of everything that the culture
to offer and then you know allowing that
to choose the winner I think maybe
that's the most honest way to do it I
don't know if regular Olympics fan or
you know people who watch the Olympics I
don't know hip-hop would understand that
that's my question too but I'm hoping
that there's some way to like explain
that to them that the individuality the
creativeness inside this is very
important and that is why the judging
system is set up in this way that's not
as quantitative as other sport other
Olympic sports such as like gymnastics
or like you know whatever martial arts
there's basketball or whatever so yeah
that's ongoing discussion we can talk
about it all day long all day long yeah
I mean I've talked to so many people
about it and yeah we're all kind of we
throw out our ideas and we don't really
know what's gonna happen but I'm hoping
that they have a good community of
people that are contributing to what
they're gonna do for that and I'm
excited to see what happens yeah I'm
hoping that pop culture gets that
recognition and publicity and risk back
from like you know this word yeah but I
don't know if I'm a big fan of that
becoming an Olympic mmm category yeah I
don't just to me just personally it just
- it seems out of place in the Olympics
to me exact but I don't want to hate on
it yeah it's a good opportunity it is
great opportunity and it's it's it's
showing me that the Olympics is growing
into a new into new things now you know
I think breaking maybe makes more sense
I mean it's its own thing but it seems
more like something in the X Games to me
yeah but even that is
different - it's it's hard to place it
where it is but I take I'll take what we
can get to be honest yeah and and make
do you know make make it into something
good and maybe maybe it does a couple
years in the Olympics and then it goes
somewhere else but I think that it's a
good opportunity to show that breaking
and hip-hop is ready for it something on
this scale and the community welcomes it
yeah which I'm hoping the rest of the
community does welcome it and doesn't
just straight-up hate on it I think
there's a lot of people that do hey
there's a lot of people hating on it
yeah yeah and I think they have good
arguments for it yeah I definitely
respect those opinions deal because
they're looking at it saying like this
is an underground thing we don't want to
like get rid of the underground rawness
of it yeah and I agree with that too
because like that's that's one of the
main things that I love about it is that
you know what drew me into it was that
this was something that you know
breaking is breaking in hip-hop is just
this counterculture of stuff you know in
my life everyone's telling me do this do
this do this and do this and then I
found breaking and they were like oh you
don't need to do that what you just did
is cool how about you just go with that
and just keep playing with that and
we'll see what happens with that you
know so it was encouraged to just try
different things you know so that's what
brought me into it cuz I was it was one
of the only things in my life that you
could just say you know fuck everything
I this is me I can do what I want here
and then yeah I don't know there's not a
lot of things I think in this world that
you can do that with but it's like
definitely encouraged in the hip-hop
world to just say yo we we like you so
put you into everything you do mm-hmm so
anyways I think we're hitting this yep
hour and fifteen minutes or so is there
any last things you want to say I think
we talked a lot about some interesting
yeah we went definitely out of plan
there's no yeah it was very interesting
conversation um I don't know if you are
listening to this and you like I
literally started like I never thought
I'll be an industry dancer yeah I never
thought I would qualify for that um
but wherever you are just working hard
and do what you can do the best always
take you somewhere else then you think
you can mm-hmm
so it definitely did that to me hmm so I
will encourage those people who kind of
doubt yourself yeah cuz that's not
really that's not that's really not it I
believe what you can dream of you can
actually accomplish so it's all about
believing yours yes and just you know
you know having the vision for it or
maybe even not the full vision but
having something yeah just yeah going
and moving towards ya you know and even
if you move a little bit away from it or
take the step in the wrong direction you
know this is not this is not a race this
is a journey so yeah see own yeah so
feel feel free to adventure around and
and but you know don't don't let the
fear of it keep you from taking that
step yep and be open-minded be
open-minded open-mindedness is important
I mean that's what hip-hop is is
embracing the open mindedness of it and
and I think every hip hopper would say
yeah the hip hop is about being you it's
not about being this other guy in fact
it's discouraged to try to be somebody
else it's that you know you're a biter
you know your copy or your opposed
if you're doing that right we want to
see what you are so mm-hmm
take take your you know your your own
personality put it into everything you
do and and I think if you do that then
you are doing it correctly you know no
matter what the result of it is you're
doing it right that's that's the right
way to do hip-hop yeah that's it dope
man well thank you for coming on here I
think this was a great conversation do
you have any where people can reach you
they want to reach out not yet
no I kind of disappeared online cuz I
was kind of big on like social media no
internet but I kind of wanted to check
if I could leave without it so I deleted
yeah yeah yeah I deal with all that and
I'm totally fine I think I feel you on
that because social media and stuff gets
crazy and like about five years ago I
was the same way I just like I gotta cut
myself off of this yeah and once I did I
didn't miss it at all mm-hmm the only
thing I really use pretty often is
Facebook because like my family and a
lot of my friends are there and so I can
communicate with them but I'm not on
there getting involved in all the like
discussions and stuff it's more like
it's more like you know someone hits me
up on there and says hey there's an
event going on oh cool I'll see if I go
yeah that's about it for me right now
you know so you can't really find me
well I found you somehow somehow and
glad you came because this was a great
conversation so thank you for coming and
thank you guys for listening and camera
just turned off so it looks like it's
done with this shit too so see you guys
later peace
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