#017 The Remarkable Revolutionary Rebel

Another Brother

This Week on Another Brother:

In episode #017, The Remarkable Revolutionary Rebel, the Brothers set upon a quest that will take them through rules, background information, context, dungeons, and dragons immemorial! Aided by their trusty elder brother, they learn fascinating things like, can my TTRPG character do whatever it wants? What if it wants to be evil like Lizzie? But FIRST, Jacob has his own orb-sighting experience. Finally, Josh takes us through a wave top telling of the story of Hugh Mercer, done in pseudo-Memento-like fashion.

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Transcript:

The following transcript was in part created using the Deepgram API:

[00:00:00] This Week on Another Brother
[00:00:37] Another Brother Theme Song
[00:00:00] Stewnerds Segment
Jacob: Okay, I'm gonna get started real quick. This is just a quick tangent before we get into the actual Stewnerds for today.
Alex: Sorry, I'm gonna have to cut you off right here even.
Jacob: That's fine.
Alex: For people that are still confused, we call the first segment of this show, Stewnerds, as a play on Stewart.
Lizzie: Jared literally asked about this today.
Josh: Oh really?
Lizzie: Yeah
Alex: Stewnerds because we just nerd out about whatever we feel like in the first segment. Go on Jacob.
Jacob: I think you get it brothers. Okay so this just happened To Heather and me 2 nights ago. I don't know if you guys even know we were down in Bryce Canyon With Heather's whole family. We left the our Airbnb at like 1030 to go to The rim of the canyon to go stargazing. So, we had just got out of the truck, we're walking towards the rim, and we saw an orb.
Lizzie: No, you didn't!
Alex: What??
Jacob: It had to have been.
Lizzie: No.
Jacob: Now, of course, Jake saw it too, and he's like, oh, look at someone's laser pointer or something like that. It was a single focused ball of light.
Alex: Where?
Josh: What color?
Jacob: Down in the canyon.
Alex: Okay. Yeah, what color?
Jacob: It was bright white.
Alex: That's not a laser.
Jacob: No, it's not a laser.
Alex: I don't know of any lasers that do white. There are no RGB lasers that are just a white beam.
Jacob: And there's no beam to it it was just a single point of light. Single source. Just very spherical.
Josh: Was it moving around like a fairy?
Jacob: It just zoomed by. Like And it was quick.
Alex: So it couldn't be like a trail runner with a headlight on.
Jacob: No, no, no, no. This was suspended-
Lizzie: Out in the middle-
Jacob: in the air, in the middle of,
Josh: What?
Jacob: Up above the canyon. So probably like,
Josh: Was it dark out? Could it have been something that-
Jacob: It was pitch black.
Alex: They were going star gazing, so.
Josh: Oh, yeah.
Jacob: This is 1 of those certified dark skies Areas, you know, the country only has so many, Bryce Canyon's one of them.
Lizzie: Good to know.
Josh: Could it have been a quad copter? With lights on.
Jacob: So, I mean if it if it had if they had removed or disabled their red and green lights to show you orientation And if they put a spotlight on it or sort of a point light,
Josh: so it was okay So describe the light.
Jacob: didn't make a sound. I mean like. So it was a- It was a sphere of light.
Josh: so like no blurring around the edges of this sphere. Or, you know, is it a crisp, crisp delineation between the light.
Alex: Yeah, why do you call it a sphere? What about it makes you say it was a sphere?
Lizzie: Because it was a ball of light.
Jacob: Yeah, literally just a ball of light.
Alex: Well yeah but you look at a...
Jacob: I mean, it was so fast, right? Like, yeah, at the least, there was motion. There would have been perceived motion blur. But it just, it zoomed by.
Josh: A straight path, no deviation?
Jacob: Yeah.
Josh: Crazy.
Alex: If it was curved, it was subtly, and it just looked like a straight line.
Jacob: Yeah.
Lizzie: How How far, you said like out in the middle of the canyon.
Jacob: Yeah, so it wasn't actually in the middle, it was maybe like 100 feet from us.
Alex: Oh, that's pretty close actually.
Jacob: Oh, it was, I'll say 50 to 100 feet. It was quite close.
Lizzie: That's very close.
Jacob: Yeah
Lizzie: How big was it, was it little then?
Jacob: I mean You know, maybe basketball size from that Far of a distance away
Josh: that tracks with them the blue orbs On the ranch they suggest the blue orbs that they see are kind of like volleyball the basketball size.
Jacob: Yeah that's right they do.
Alex: But those are blue
Josh: meanwhile the red orbs are smaller they're more like grapefoot- great- sorry, grape foot
Lizzie: What?
Josh: That's what said.
Alex: Don't bring cryptids into this now.
Josh: The crypt... Yeah, grapefruit, softball size for the red orbs.
Jacob: For the distance it was I think it would have been larger than that. So again, it felt like an orb sighting. I'm such a skeptic. I can't really 100% claim it was an orb. I don't know. I don't know what it would have been logically. And you can ask Heather about it offline. You can get her take on it too.
Lizzie: Oh, Heather is going to diss it.
Jacob: No, Heather's with me. She doesn't know what the heck that would have been.
Josh: You said you don't know what else it would be logically. What's so illogical about orbs these days?
Alex: If it was a hundred to 50 feet away and it was a drone, you would have heard a drone.
Jacob: Yes, Yeah, and there was no sound.
Lizzie: And those aren't crazy fast.
Alex: They can be.
Jacob: They can be very fast.
Alex: Racing drones are ridiculous.
Lizzie: That's a thing?
Jacob: Oh yeah.
Alex: Yeah, welcome to the 2020s, geez Louise!
Jacob: Okay, anyway, that took longer than I meant. It just wasn't big enough to be its own segment. So and it was so fresh, I had to tell you guys about that.
Alex: Okay.
Josh: Recorded, event recorded. Wait, timestamp.
Alex: yeah, we'll see if We actually do keep this recorder. Okay, so we were planning to talk about Dungeons and Dragons this week. This is like the pinnacle of nerdiness, I think. I've always thought of it that way. So I wanted to start off with defining what Dungeons & Dragons is. Not like something that would go in a dictionary necessarily, but most people don't know what Dungeons & Dragons is. I want to do this because I'm the 1 that's played the most I think.
Jacob: Absolutely.
Josh: Definitely.
Lizzie: Yeah.
Jacob: Easily.
Alex: I have the most D&D playing friends probably. So if you guys have any questions along the way or comments please do interject. But Dungeons & Dragons is a set of rules that allows you to play a tabletop role-playing game. There are other sets of rules that allow you to play, but all of the games that allow you to do this kind of gameplay are collectively known as tabletop role-playing games or TTRPGs. So Dungeons and Dragons is not a fantasy setting it is just a group of rules. But you could also say that it is a specific group of settings where you can play because within the Dungeons & Dragons brand you have the Forgotten Realms which is the setting that everyone thinks of when they think about dungeons and dragons.
Jacob: And most people, that's the realm they play in, right?
Alex: I don't know for sure, but I would I would believe so.
Jacob: Probably the most material that they build around it as well.
Alex: Yeah, right. It's a high fantasy.
Jacob: Stranger Things? Is this the realm that they were playing?
Alex: Yeah, yeah it sure seems like it. Yeah, for sure. It's a high fantasy setting, lots of dragons, lots of dungeons, lots of magic. That's what makes it a high fantasy setting is that it's there's a lot of magic. Magic's all over the place But there's also- What is that 1 called? Gray something
Josh: Grey Skull.
Alex: No, that's what I start thinking about.
Jacob: He-Man
Josh: Grey Moore
Alex: Don't try to help.
Josh: Oh.
Alex: There's another setting that's a low fantasy setting that is Dungeons & Dragons where there's not a lot of magic so magic items or magic weapons not very common in that setting some people love it
Lizzie: So guns?
Alex: no no guns,
Lizzie: swords?
Alex: yeah it's still fantasy
Lizzie: oh low fantasy, my bad
Alex: It would be a little bit more like...
Josh: Game of Thrones.
Jacob: Lord of the Rings.
Lizzie: Isn't there magic?
Alex: Could be. I've never watched Game of Thrones.
Josh: Oh, no, there probably is a lot of magic.
Lizzie: We obviously don't know game of thrones.
Alex: Yeah, there's some magic, I just don't know how much. There's plenty of dragons.
Josh: The dragons.
Alex: I mean, I'm sure there's still, well, I'm not sure actually, because I've never played in that setting. But I think you might think of it a little bit more like the Souls games, Dark Souls set of video games, where it's more about like this grim medieval setting with not a lot of magic.
Josh: Oh, what's that new game that I tried playing?
Lizzie: Elden Ring.
Josh: Elden Ring.
Alex: Oh, there's a lot of magic in that one.
Josh: Oh, I never got far enough to experience magic.
Lizzie: Yeah, that one's not the same as the-
Alex: Magic is the most powerful way to play the game, is what I understand.
Josh: Yeah, my bad.
Alex: Okay, There's other settings that are really cool like there's a futuristic 1 I think actually I'm thinking of a Pathfinder setting which is a different set of rules.
Josh: Different TTRPG?
Alex: Yes a different TTRPG. Pathfinders was a spin-off from Dungeons & Dragons.
Jacob: Oh, okay, I thought it was part of D&D so that's good to know.
Alex: Right, no. It was based on, I think... I don't want to say because if we have any real nerds listening they will chew me up.
Josh: I was gonna say, I thought I remember seeing a set of YouTube videos on Pathfinder and it was very much more sci-fi-y and it really interested me.
Alex: It's just they have a setting called Starfinder that is, it is pretty sci-fi. I think a lot of weapons are like, you know, lasery weapons. There's guns Stuff I think you get shields Packs or something like like you might in Halo kind of a thing. I've never played it, so I don't really know the specifics.
Jacob: So at some point I would like to talk about, or not talk, just see what the other settings are in Dungeons and Dragons, not necessarily on the podcast.
Lizzie: Like, I've played Lord of the Rings.
Alex: Using 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons rules?
Lizzie: I think so. I'm not... Yeah, I think so.
Alex: I think if it's not official, It's practically official. People really love that setting.
Lizzie: That was the most fun I had playing with Sheridan and his siblings, was The Lord of the Rings, and I was a dwarf, and it was great.
Josh: That'd be kind of easy. You could be like Frodo and just be like, oh, no! All the time to everything like,
Jacob: save me, Sam!
Josh: Oh, Samwise! Yeah, I could get into that character.
Jacob: Alex was saying he wanted to first explain what D&D is because most people don't truly know. Right. And he said, even us at the table, who we've all played with Alex and Lizzie plays with Jared and his family so he said even we might not actually know what it is. I didn't know about these other settings. Yeah, to me D&D is forgotten this single realm yeah D&D isn't a set of rules of how to play tabletop RPG. It's this world. So that's cool.
Josh: Thanks a lot Chris Pine. Such lies.
Alex: No, there's a reason why that movie was in the Forgotten realms because it is the most popular. There are a lot of Dungeons & Dragons novels and most of them take place in the Forgotten Realms. Most people do know that Dungeons & Dragons has been around since the 80s but what they may not know is that there have been different updates to the rules, different versions of the rules since then. Actually, I think it might be around since the late 70s, but unofficially at that point. It was just something that the creator was doing with friends in his basement. And I think it was in his basement, unfortunately.
Josh: Is that a capital C, the Creator? Is that- did he-
Lizzie: The Creator!
Alex: Gary Gygax
Josh: in D&D lore is he The Creator?
Alex: no he's Gary.
Josh: All hail the Creator, all hail the Creator.
Jacob: Has he written himself into it?
Alex: No, I don't think so.
Jacob: He should.
Josh: He should be the most powerful creature!
Jacob: he should be the gelatinous cube.
Lizzie: The Gary.
Alex: Why- Why would you- that's kind of offensive, isn't it?
Josh: Why did you choose the gelatinous one?
Jacob: Well, my history of it is really from Onward, the Pixar movie. And it was a thing to greatly be feared.
Alex: I mean, it is, really. They're pretty disgusting. They can be used to great effect.
Josh: It's like the blob?
Alex: I don't know. What is the blob?
Josh: It's an old movie.
Alex: Yeah, that really old 1, right?
Josh: Old black and white. Yeah, it just seeps into everything.
Alex: I don't think it's... I think they're worse than the blob. But anyway, that's a different topic. So right now, Dungeons & Dragons is on the fifth edition of the rules. And they tried to focus on simplicity of rules so that play is not so much about remembering all of the rules and the mechanics as much as telling a story and role-playing because that's what the game is supposed to quote-unquote be about But a lot of people like the game just for the mechanics and the combat. And I think that's an equally legitimate way to play the game. You know? But telling the story is pretty cool if you can manage to get your head into a character and figure out who that character is, what they would want, what they would do.
Josh: I just want to smash buttons and move joysticks and then have it tell me what the story is. Like the DM-
Jacob: Yeah
Alex: well that is what the DM is for.
Josh: -tell me the story.
Alex: So you might be one of those players that's all about the mechanics and the combat. So within Dungeons and Dragons, there are different types of characters you can play that are broken down. I didn't think about what language to use for describing
Josh: English please.
Jacob: English. Ah dangit!
Alex: Well, okay. I'm not going to use Italian because I've never played Dungeons and Dragons in Italian. But you have a number of different really important decisions to make about who and what your character is when building your character from the beginning. Class is probably the biggest decider. Your class is like, are you a fighter? Are you a wizard? Are you a barbarian, a monk?
Jacob: Bard.
Alex: Cleric, paladin. Bard is good.
Josh: Those are defined by the rule set. Yes, so 5 E's.
Alex: Each of these classes has a name and a set of rules and abilities and upgrades as you level up that are unlocked according to the rule set that is in this case fifth edition Dungeons and Dragons. So that's that's the first big decision I think is the class. The next 1 is your... People are using different words for it nowadays. Ancestry, I think, is the most current word for it right now.
Josh: It was race?
Alex: It was race. Okay, so now, okay. Which is stupid because if it's anything, it's species.
Jacob: Species, yeah, okay, actually, that's true.
Alex: But that feels weird, I think, to say species.
Josh: Yeah, ancestry's fine. That's safe enough.
Alex: And unfortunately, This is a fantasy thing, so it's not exactly scientific. You can crossbreed any of these, which is why they call it ancestry. You could be a half human, half elf, which has classically been called a half-elf. In Dungeons & Dragons, I'm not sure you can be a half-elf, half-orc. I think you can be half-human, half-orc, or half-human, half-elf. But in Pathfinder, you can be half-anything, half-anything else.
Jacob: How about quarters.
Alex: No, I don't think so. Because you only have 2 parents.
Jacob: Well...
Josh: But they have 2 parents.
Alex: Okay, fair enough. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know, man.
Josh: Okay, so that's ancestry. So we have class, ancestry.
Alex: And background. Background is like...
Josh: That's like your, what's my motivation?
Alex: Like the backstory sort of, like where did your character come from? What kind of life did they come from? Were they a...
Lizzie: Like Evil!
Alex: Were they a charlatan? No, not like evil.
Jacob: That's alignment.
Alex: We don't talk about alignment anymore in tabletop RPGs. It's useless.
Lizzie: What?
Jacob: Really?
Alex: Yeah, I mean, unless you're a paladin, it's really just not important.
Josh: No, because items, quest lines, certain things like...
Jacob: motivation.
Josh: line... line...
Alex: I mean, again, this isn't really... What?
Lizzie: What?
Josh: Cut that.
Jacob: Someone was supposed to feed him what to say next.
Alex: This isn't... This isn't supposed to feed them what to say next. This isn't a video game. So they try not to simplify things so much as alignment. Alignment's just so constricting. If you need it to help you role play your character, then by all means, use whatever tools you need.
Jacob: Yeah, I feel like it should be built into the backstory, but not necessarily.
Alex: Right, sure. Yeah, I mean, and it kind of is, but why shouldn't your character change as they experience life?
Lizzie: Character development!
Alex: Yeah.
Josh: Because that's unrealistic. Nobody changes these days.
Alex: Maybe for you.
Jacob: Well, this isn't these days.
Josh: Oh yeah, duh, these are those days.
Alex: Because this is a real thing in the past!
Jacob: That's why we don't have wizards anymore.
Alex: So you can be like an urchin. That's a common one. like a street urchin. You know or charlatan or a guard, a soldier.
Josh: So if I remember right though based on the rule set also per I don't know if it was ancestry or class but there's like suggested backgrounds too.
Alex: yeah right Because with each of these 3 different choices, class, race, or ancestry, and background, they each have their own different things that they give your character. And so, some races... It's just such a habit for me because I've been playing long enough. Some ancestries. And actually, you know what? I think there's a new set of rules in Dungeons & Dragons for ancestry that I'm not really super familiar with, that might not do this anymore. Part of the reason people had problems with race was that different races had very specific attributes. Like, you were more dexterous as an elf, and more wise. All elves are more dexterous and more wise than other...
Josh: Right, that's what makes them elves.
Alex: ...Ancestries, which people thought was racism, you know?
Jacob: What? No, it makes sense.
Josh: It was just a way for them to...
Jacob: Oh, for race versus species or ancestry. Is that why people are upset about it? Or have they gotten rid of those?
Alex: It was too close to real-world racism, thinking that everybody of a certain kind is exactly the same way.
Josh: Yeah, which is unfortunate because obviously the game designers and creators are just like, we need a way to try to stack stats differently So there's different ways to play. And they chose to attach it to what was then race. And that's unfortunate.
Jacob: So are you saying they've gotten rid of that?
Alex: I know Pathfinder has in some way, where like instead of getting a plus 2 to dexterity and plus 1 to wisdom, you get plus 2 and plus 1 to whatever stats you want. Except you can't put the 2 and the 1 on the same stat.
Josh: There's probably still suggested.
Alex: But there are other things.
Jacob: Yeah, you're probably right about that.
Alex: There are other things, for example, movement speed. Dwarves are short and slow because they got tiny little legs. That is always the case. Dwarves are just slower than other people.
Jacob: But elves can now be dumb.
Alex: Dwarves can be dumb?
Jacob: Elves no longer by default get the wisdom booster so they can be dumb.
Alex: So that's the other thing where I'm not so sure I agree with the racism criticism is that even though you get a plus 2 bonus to wisdom, that doesn't mean your character is going to be a wise character because you get to choose the stats.
Jacob: Yeah. You're still play.
Josh: There's still some dumb dude behind that elf.
Alex: It's just a bonus.
Jacob: So that's why, because it should be species, and species do have biological advantages over other species.
Alex: Right, and they still do. They've gotten rid of the attribute, I should define what an attribute is I guess, there are 6 attributes that make up a character in the game also. And these things determine what kinds of actions and things your character is good at and which ones they're bad at in the game. You have strength, constitution, dexterity, wisdom, intelligence, and charisma. So a really dexterous character is going to be good at dodging fireballs, and a really charismatic 1 is going to be really good at lying to people, and so on.
Josh: or getting good deals on merchant trades.
Alex: Yes. If you have a DM that will play that way. I should define DM. A DM is a Dungeon Master. There's 1 person that's in charge of the game that basically says what happens when everybody says, I want to do this. Then they roll some dice, or the character, the player rolls some dice and the numbers, I'm not doing a good job explaining this. But there's lots of rules with lots of numbers involved to keep things a little more lively so that it's not just constantly success, success, success. Oh, you want to do that? Cool, you did it. Awesome, you're cool! There's a little bit of randomness, a little bit of danger.
Josh: So to recap, lots of dungeons, lots of dragons, race is bad, we talk about ancestry now, you can be charismatic, but if you're not, when you're playing the character, it's probably not gonna come off that way, and the DM is gonna say no.
Jacob: And most importantly, elves can now be dumb.
Alex: The DM will not say no. They'll say, you failed. Because you can try anything in D&D. The DM that I've played with the most, that was his favorite thing to say. When someone says, can I do this? He will say, you can attempt anything in D&D. And then he tells you what you need to roll for. Like what skill you need to roll for. And you roll the die and add everything up. And he tells you whether you failed or succeeded.
Lizzie: And then there's Jared's sister who will smuggly say, you can try!
Alex: Wow.
Jacob: Rude. There's also, obviously, you'll encounter bad guys and have to fight them. That's another thing that the Dungeon Master does. He controls the movement, decisions, fighting, all the things that the bad guys do. Brothers, if you haven't watched the TV show Community, they've got some killer D&D episode.
Alex: They only have 1 killer D&D episode.
Josh: There's only one left.
Jacob: You don't like the other 1?
Alex: They got rid of it.
Josh: It's not around.
Jacob: Oh, that 1.
Alex: Because Chang did black face.
Lizzie: I thought you were only talking about that 1.
Josh: It's not streaming. I think you can still own it. Yeah, Chang took that ancestry issue a little too far.
Alex: Yeah. So, that brings up a good point. There are some people that want to dress up as their character when they play. Most people do not. There's no dressing up required to play Dungeons & Dragons. It's just people sitting around a table, sharing snacks, making a weird interactive story together. Most of the time, it's really silly. Some, most people, I think, play really silly. But it doesn't have to be. It can be anything you want, that's the cool part. It's like video games but way more free.
Jacob: Yes, so like when Heather and I first I think started dating she asked me like what was the appeal of video games like why do you care to play it's like I said like well think of it as like a movie as you love movies everyone loves movies you just sit down and you watch this movie it's a great escape, a tool of escapism and you see these amazing things that you've never seen otherwise in video games I get to be the hero I get to be the lead character and choose what paths and things I do in that movie that's that's D&D basically you're choosing literally everything in this adventure that you're unfolding.
Josh: My escape is I'm usually always the hero, so then when I play video games I'm the villain! Don't look at me wrong! Are you talking to me?!
Alex: You can play D&D that way too.
Jacob: But I don't want to be on a Jerk's team.
Josh: No, no, no, it's the character who's the jerk.
Lizzie: Yeah, his character doesn't want to be on your character's team!
Josh: How do you know? You don't, you haven't met your character yet!
Alex: You guys are opening up a new bag of topics that tabletop RPG players are always talking about, but we can talk about that another time.
Josh: Psh. Naturals.
[00:25:35] Stewnerds!
[00:25:43] Storytime Segment
Josh: Today's storytime, I want to do something slightly different. It's not one of my stories, but it's a pretty dang cool story that I heard recently, and I think it's a cool story for a lot of people to hear. But if you'll bear with me, I'm gonna attempt to tell this story in reverse. So prepare yourselves.
Alex: Why...?
Josh: This could be a train wreck!
Lizzie: What?
Alex: Alright.
Josh: Speaking of train wrecks...
Jacob: With that preface. Is it a literal train wreck?
Josh: No, that'd be awesome though. It's a train wreck of sorts. So, the year is 1781. The date is 19 October. Revolutionary War, American forces have finally defeated the British once and for all. On this day, the British surrender to American forces. And that surrender ceremony is a legend, but you might not know it. General Cornwallis, the British, the general of British forces, wasn't present for the surrender. He was supposedly ill. So, his second-in-command, Brigadier General Charles O'Hara, was gonna be the British representative to surrender to US Forces. The Brits still really did not like Americans. They thought they were inferior in every way.
Jacob: Sure enough. The war just ended.
Alex: Well, yeah, yeah.
Josh: So even though they were defeated, Brigadier General O'Hara attempted to surrender to the French general on the battlefield, Comte de Rochambeau.
Jacob: Ro-cham-beau!
Josh: Rochambeau, rather than taking the surrender, pointed to George Washington and said, you surrender to the Americans. So the French really just digging it to the British. George Washington's response was to point to his second in command and say, you can surrender to him. To say, hey bud, we're not on the same level.
Jacob: Yeah.
Alex: Ohhh.
Josh: So that's where we get doing a Rochambeau or pulling a Rochambeau when you like jockey or someone's trying to get something out of you and you just kind of spin them around. And point them somewhere else.
Alex: I only know Rochambeau as another name for rock, paper, scissors.
Josh: Think about it.
Alex: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yeah, no, I found that, yeah.
Josh: Yeah, so that's, that's, yeah, prior to that It's doing a Rochambeau.
Lizzie: I've never heard this before.
Jacob: Shanghai Noon.
Josh: Oh Yeah, okay. So that's where it comes from now. That's the setting 4 years earlier January 3rd 1777 American forces are battling the British during the Battle of Princeton. US forces are battling General Charles Cornwallis' forces, and although the American forces win once Washington brings his reserves into the battle, laying dead on the battlefield is a US general named Hugh Mercer. Hugh Mercer, by many accounts, was actually George Washington's secondhand man. He was a very close friend of George Washington, and he was by trade an apothecaryist and a trained surgeon. And unfortunately, while leading his troops in the Battle of Princeton against General Cornwallis, he succumbed to wounds and died. So that was January 3rd, 1777. Just 8 days prior to that, on Christmas morning, do you know what happens Christmas Day of 1776?
Jacob: No.
Alex: Christmas. Oh.... right...
Josh: You know that, George Washington crossing the Delaware under the guise of night on Christmas day...
Alex: Oh, I feel dumb now. shoulda known that.
Josh: To gain an advantage on the British. So, there's... I've only heard it in spoken folklore, but the idea to launch that raid in the middle of the night was Hugh Mercer's idea. And surprisingly to him, George accepted the plan and said, yeah, that's a great idea. Let's figure out how to make it work. And they did. And because of that, and because of that victory 8 days later, despite Hugh's own demise, that was enough to convince a lot of American colonists that Washington was a good general and they could ultimately defeat the British. And so that was a drive towards enlistment and support.
Jacob: And ultimate victory came 4 years after that.
Josh: And then ultimate victory was 4 years later. Rewind a little bit more. Before the start of the American Revolutionary War, Hugh Mercer is living in Fredericksburg, Virginia, which is the hometown of George Washington. And in Fredericksburg, Hugh Mercer sets up an apothecary and starts dealing medicine to American colonists. This is pre-revolutionary war. One of Hugh's patients is George Washington's mother. And in fact, Hugh even purchases George Washington's old family home. And it's a huge estate. He has plans to settle down with his apothecary as his business and to establish a large immigrant community on this plot of land. Unfortunately, we know he doesn't get to because he gets pulled into the war as a Captain and then later on gets promoted up the way to General as he's leading these troops and ultimately dies. Prior to settling in Fredericksburg, Virginia, Hugh Mercer is a member of the British Army and fights in the French and Indian Wars.
Jacob: Oh, so he has actual combat experience.
Josh: He –
Alex: British tactical experience.
Josh: One of the battles that he's known for is during the French and Indian War is the battle for Fort Duchesne, which Fort Duchesne was an actual pivotal battle at the time and it held a very strategic location for the French and the British. Based on- Fort Deschaine was this outcropping of land right in the middle of 3 rivers that connected. And so, if you control this one point, you can control all movement up and down these rivers. So, now we're back into 1750. So, in early 1750, French troops arrived in the Ohio Valley to build a series of forts, including Fort Duchesne. At the time, a young Virginian officer, George Washington, was sent to deliver a letter to the French, demanding that the French leave that region altogether. The mission was ultimately a failure, but when passing through the region, Washington noted that the point of this land at the junction of the rivers was an excellent location for a fort. So it was actually George Washington prior to the Revolutionary War, prior to the French and Indian War, was a land prospector. So his history was he actually rode with British surveyors and he'd go out and he'd survey land in that entire like wild, their wild Western Front. And so he got to know the land very well. He got to, you know, great leadership skills, survival skills, all these things. And so he had a great eye for terrain and value of land and property. So in early 1754, in response to Washington's suggestion to build a fort there, the British did build a fort there, called it Fort Prince George, but the French troops arrived because they saw its strategic placement, overran it, and then renamed it to Fort Duchesne. So, having doubled back, now the British realize just how great of a location Fort Duchesne is, and under, I think, 2 battles, they fought to regain control of Fort Duchesne, and who was part of those battles but our friend Hugh Mercer. And that is where... That is one of the first battles of the French Indian War that we know Hugh Mercer was a part of. Now, go backwards in time a little bit more. This is so cool. I'm just blown away by this guy. In the fall of 1746, Hugh Mercer comes to America on a ship that departed from Leith.
Alex: Sorry, sorry, sorry. What year?
Josh: 1746.
Jacob: I just want to know how old he was.
Josh: So he died at age 50.
Jacob: Oh okay.
Lizzie: In 1776?
Jacob: So this was about 30 years before his death.
Josh: Yeah, so he's like 20. Yeah, he's a young kid. He's a young kid. So he immigrated to the U.S. Through Philadelphia in 1746. And he immigrated while hiding and running for his life. Because prior to this, he was a member of the Jacobite rebellion against the British and fought at the Battle of Culloden, which was the final battle-
Lizzie: No way
Josh: -that sealed the fate of the Jacobite Revolution against the British in Scotland. And in the Battle of Culloden, he fought and acted as a surgeon for the Scottish troops that were fighting.
Alex: I think it's Culloden.
Josh: Culloden. Culloden. And so 4 years prior to that, he studied medicine at the University of Aberdeen, starting at the age of 15.
Jacob: Wow. Yeah. Young.
Josh: He sudied medicine. Yeah. And then he immediately joined the cause of the Jacobites, fought against the British. They lost. The British were looking for him. He got on a boat, immigrated to Pennsylvania, tried to set down roots as an apothecary at that time as well. He got roped up into the French and Indian War working for the British this time because he's a medicine man so he wants to help heal people. Ultimately after the French and Indian War settles down, he makes friends with George Washington in the French and Indian War, then he settles down next to George Washington's hometown, gets to know his mom, sets up an apothecary, starts being really good friends with George Washington, launches into the Revolutionary War alongside his friend George, starts getting promoted from captain up to Brigadier General. Ultimately, he has the brainchild that launched the US war into its victorious end state and dies just in a field suffering musket wounds to the forces of the British general that we ultimately defeat and kick off our continent. So, anyway, I heard about this guy and I'm like, I've never heard of this man before. But he was so pivotal in so many events in our history. And when you look at Scotland, you think of like the Scottish Enlightenment is probably one of the main movements that even resulted in our American concepts of freedom and liberty. Religious liberties, like all these liberties that we hold dear now. And then- And he's a product of that. He's a product of wanting to do good, to help people, to have freedoms of his own.
Lizzie: Take down the British.
Josh: Take it to the British. And he spent almost, you know, probably 35 years of his life just fighting-
Jacob: for freedoms.
Josh: -for freedom. And just a really, really cool figure. So I wanted to, when I heard his story, I was like, man, this, more People need to know about this. It's pretty good. I'd love for my kids to hear about him, learn about him, his entire span of life, what he chose to spend his time doing. Why am I getting emotional?
Lizzie: Cuz Scotland.
Alex: I'm not totally sure, but that's cool.
Jacob: And freedom.
Lizzie: And freedom.
Jacob: Yeah, but it's inspiring.
Lizzie: Well, and you chose to...
Jacob: Do the same.
Lizzie: Not really. I love Brits. So, anyway, cool guy, Hugh Mercer. On the East Coast, there are a number of monuments and towns and counties named after him, so he's not totally forgotten.
Lizzie: No, I knew about him. I didn't know he was Scottish.
Josh: Yep. And one of the coolest things about him that I haven't mentioned yet, He's one of the ancestors of General Patton.
Alex: Oh.
Jacob: Huh.
Josh: Who's, like, just a crazy guy.
Alex: Just a crazy guy. I wonder if he's related to Matt Mercer, who is tying it back into Dungeons & Dragons from earlier, one of the greatest Dungeon Masters on the internet.
Josh: He's the best around!
Alex: But also an incredible voice actor. The first person to ever voice Ganondorf in a video game.
Jacob: That's why the name's familiar. You've brought him up on the podcast before.
Alex: Yeah. He's amazing.
Lizzie: That's crazy. Well, so many people died at the Battle of... Culloden?
Alex: Culloden. I believe it's Culloden. Yeah. Like, that's... Yeah, it's crazy.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah, so he was, I mean, he, from all accounts, he was... He worked up until the very last second. And, like, until it was a done for thing, the British were rounding up anybody who had anything to do with supporting the Jacobites. And he couldn't hide with his parents. His dad was a preacher at the Scottish church? I can't remember. Episcopalean? Was that around?
Lizzie: Presbyterian?
Alex: I was thinking it was Protestant.
Jacob: It might be Presbyterian. One of those is literally the Church of Scotland basically.
Josh: Oh, Church of Scotland, yeah. So he was Reverend William Mercer, minister of the Church of Scotland. Yeah, so he couldn't stick around. So he just jumped on a boat to Philadelphia.
Jacob: And if he hadn't, right, that's the big question. If he hadn't gotten himself in trouble, identifying as part of the Jacobite rebellion, if he hadn't jumped on that ship, if he hadn't met George Washington...
Alex: That is- I mean- That is just a crazy ride. That's a crazy ride. Fight against the British...
Lizzie: Run away.
Alex: Then run from them. Fight for the British... Then fight against the British again.
Josh: Yeah. Your entire life, And you're tied up with these amazing historical figures the whole time. Like, you have... You're fighting against kings and princes on the battlefield in Scotland.
Alex: Clearly, he had some complex feelings about the Hippocratic Oath.
Josh: There's a, if I have, if, when I have more time, there's a ton of letters between him and George Washington, just spanning like that entire time period, like 20 plus years, like "letter from Hugh Mercer to George Washington", "letter from George Washington to Hugh Mercer". And they talk about logistics and supply and also how his, how George's mom's doing. Cause he took care of her. He, you know, he, while, while George moved up to, I don't know, do Continental Congress stuff maybe. Hugh's back there taking care of his mom. Pretty cool.
Jacob: It feels like people were built different back then. I mean, 20 year old deciding, I mean, not saying we don't have people like this in current history, but as a 20 year old to try to take that on, literally jump ship, Not jump on a ship, get out of there. But then to just continually be at the forefront of trying... And it's not just him, there was so many of those men who were in that same position as him, who were responsible eventually for the Brits even needing to try to fight back the American... for the revolt even happening, there's hundreds, thousands of people who made that a necessity for the British. That sounds like a weird way to put it, but...
Josh: Yeah, to be so principaled. Either to be so principaled or so unhinged. Who knows what the actual mental state of this guy was. But just seeking, he obviously has a penchant for seeking excitement. Because I think being a battlefield surgeon, especially at the time, like how much medicine do you actually know? How many procedures do you have to like stop arterial bleeding?
Alex: Oh, better stick a leech on that!
Josh: Yeah, so I mean He had to have had some level of crazy.
Jacob: Yeah.
Lizzie: I think most of the Jacobites did. Jack-O-Bites.
Josh: Jack-O-Bites. Yeah. Yeah, they had the crazy people.
Alex: I have a Jacobite shirt. It's not very comfy. I don't love wearing it.
Josh: Too much chest hair?
Jacob: Yes.
Alex: No.
Jacob: I like my chest been covered up.
[00:43:39] Another Brother Outro