127 / How Holistic Leadership Builds Better Games – and Product Teams, with Ben Carcich and Aaron Smith

Product Momentum Podcast

In this episode, Building Better Games co-founders Ben Carcich and Aaron Smith join Product Momentum, offering an inside look at the contributions the video game industry has brought to enterprise tech – and vice versa. Specifically, Ben and Aaron share a fresh take on how holistic leadership and product management help us build things that matter to the people who use our products.

Aaron shares his personal journey where games provided a safe space for him to reinvent himself, shaping him into the leader he is today. And Ben reflects on how his experiences in game development nurtured his thinking and approach to holistic leadership; he emphasizes the challenges and responsibilities of leading a team of gamers tied to the experience only by their ongoing desire to participate.

“Here I was,” Ben says, “bringing together a group of people with disparate interests, and disparate skill levels…. I wasn’t paying them to be there. They were there by choice. I was leading them, and they were following me by choice. There’s all this stuff that you accept as a responsibility, … but you don’t view it as a burden because you’re happy to be there with that group of people.”

Aaron uses the analogy of a 3-deck ship to explain holistic leadership, with the top deck representing process, the next level is product, and the lowest level – below the water line – is culture: how people are actually behaving.

“As leaders, we have to care about culture first, that lowest level,” Aaron adds. “That’s what holistic leadership means: start at the most foundational level and work your way up. Don’t start with challenges at the most surface level and work your way down. By the time you think about what’s truly important, your ship will have sunk. Leaders need to internalize responsibility for that to be a holistic leader.”

Catch the entire conversation with Ben Carcich and Aaron Smith , and how they talk about the value product managers contribute to their enterprise tech roles – but also how that same value might be realized in the video games world where the term is rarely used. You can also watch our episode with Ben and Aaron on the Product Momentum YouTube channel!

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